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September 03, 2009

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Pat

I don't think this is going to be as political an activity as some think. Your suggested approaches to it are certainly reasonable.

But then you linked Free Republic and the accompanying article, complete with these keywords: "reeducation centers," "bhofacism," "cultureofcorruption," and so forth, and there went the validity of the argument.

It's not the Dems who have given President Obama the power that you think he has; the fearmongers -- and those who bite -- have. My fervent prayer for this country and all who reside here is that, at some point, reason and good will might prevail. But apparently not today.

Colette Moran

Gotta disagree -- I called it "knee-jerk" and basically said it was an over-reaction. Just because I have a link to what I think is unecessary doesn't invalidate my point. (It shows that I'm not blowing smoke.)

And you have to know that these people who are making these comparisons to Hitler are a small number. (Despite what Pelosi says.)

Should we say that the country was unable to have reason and good will during the previous administration bec of all the Bush haters? Did Bush only have the power that so many said he had bec of what those "fear-mongers" said?

I'm going to do what I can to instill that reason and good will rather than bemoan it's absence and blame someone on the fringe. (Which you usually seem to think is wrong.)

Pat

I'm so tired of people comparing Bush's treatment to Obama's. Did you like the way Bush was treated by his haters? Then why use the fact that Bush was maligned by some to justify the treatment Obama receives? I don't think that advances the discourse at all. It's basically an eye-for-an-eye mentality. I thought Bush was a terrible president, but I never stooped to the level of those who trashed him online or called him names. I even participated in church prayers to uplift him at one time, so asking me to consider how Bush was treated does not resonate with me.

And you have, on more than one occasion, expressed your unhappiness with...Gosh, lots of things. So please don't smack me about when I state that I will pray for good will and reason to return to this country. I was raised to believe that uplifting people in prayer is a very powerful way to effect change. You might be accustomed to seeing those comments on Free Republic. I was not, and I was shocked. Call me naive if you wish.

Colette Moran

Gee -- how many twistings of my words can be contained in one comment?

No one is saying that a President doesn't deserve to be disagreed with. What I'm pointing out is the hypocrisy of liberals who complain about unfair treatment of Obama, but never said a word when the same was done to Bush.

Doesn't make any of it right, for Bush or Obama -- it's just laughable that the liberals who were mum when it was done to Bush suddenly see that it is wrong now that their guy is in.

It's not eye-for-eye -- it's calling for the same outrage at dubious rantings no matter who is in the White House. (And letting it slide when it falls within reasonable boundaries -- just as not every dissent before was un-American, not every dissent now is racism.)

Nothing wrong with expressing unhappiness -- what I called you on the carpet for was saying that there was no "reason and good will" in this country based on the comments of a few kooks. (I felt you were in essence, throwing me in with them, and that wasn't fair.)

Believe me, there are many times when I am still shocked at the neanderthal comments on Free Republic -- its not naivete to find them shocking. I take no pride that they are among those who frequent that site, but that is the nature of free thought and expression -- very strange bedfellows at times.

Uplifting people through prayer *is* a very powerful way to effect change -- you were mistaken in thinking I don't agree.

Pat

I didn't say there was no good will or reason. I said that my fervent hope was that they would prevail. Believe me, I have not lost all hope. I'm prayerful and positive that the US will right itself again. And I do believe that Obama is working toward positive change. I'm tolerant of other opinions. I don't have to look very far to find someone who'll counter my argument -- not here in the south.

I understand your point of view that liberals are now calling for equity with regard to Obama when it wasn't given to Bush. But at what point does the political group that does not have control of the executive branch exhibit the grace to be respectful and bipartisan? If Dems didn't do it with Bush, it certainly isn't being shown now by Repubs either.

About lumping you in with the FR crowd...I have to admit, I do wonder what you get out of posting there.

ChunLing

What is "equity"?

How do you determine whether an attitude is "reasonable"?

What is "false witness"?

At some point, the question of whether or not an assertion represents an accurate prediction of real events does have to be raised. I recall being rather puzzled by all the people who said, immediately after the event, that September 11 "changed everything". What did it change? I knew that Islamic terrorists were trying to high-jack airliners and knock down the World Trade Center and Pentagon. I thought everyone knew these things. It was nearly an inevitability. When I saw the towers burning on the news, I thought, "I can't believe my brother would interrupt my day to tell me about yet another Islamic terrorist attack."

But the coverage, the outrage, the bewilderment (and the "truthers") all revealed something far more alarming to me than the terrorist attack itself. It showed that many Americans had somehow subscribed to the utterly falsified belief that Islamic terrorism wouldn't happen "here". I'd had no clear notion it was possible for any functional adult to be so utterly deluded, and yet...clearly they had been. And, only a few years later, most Americans have fallen back into the exact same delusion that was shattered so abruptly that day.

Why should we expect people to treat Obama "like other presidents" if he's not even President? The President swears a solemn oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. Has Barack done anything in office that could possibly be construed as defense of the Constitution? Can you cite some actual passage of the Constitution that was served by any of his actions in office? Does he at least pay lip service to the Constitution?

There is, of course, the by now somewhat tired issue of whether Barack would even be eligible based on his natural-born citizenship. Frankly I fail to see why anyone would care about that compared with all the other ways he flouts the Constitution, but in truth it's not an insignificant point either. Presuming that I supported Barack's policies otherwise I would likely demand that he step aside and let Biden take over, as the Constitution clearly stipulates in this kind of case. But the fact is that I don't much care for Biden either, I'm hardly going to waste a lot of effort trying to make him President.

Bush wasn't that great a President. I preferred him over Gore (who has made his name synonymous with a "scientific" theory which has proven to have zero predictive value) and Kerry (who made me wonder why the Democrats couldn't even field someone like Gore). I said...things that could be construed as unkind when he did (or supported) things I thought outrageous. During the election I actively tried to persuade people against voting for McCain, because at best he seemed like a doddering idiot who wasn't even in control of his own campaign staff (later events seem to bear this view out).

In the early years of Clinton's presidency, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. But, when later events make you look like a fool for having done so, you have to decide whether to be "nice" or sane. So thus far, I'm treating Barack Obama rather more respectfully than I've treated the last couple of decades worth of Presidents. For what that's worth.

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